Wednesday, December 30, 2009
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Artsy "Word Vomit"
Our opinions do not really blossom into fruition until we have expressed them to someone else--TWAIN
What Words Define You?
Artsy "Word Vomit"
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ReplyDeleteblarg
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletetesting testing
ReplyDeleteShelly's choice in using an ode to portray her feelings of the wind is appropriate. In the poetry packet the notes on an ode stated, "their speakers often use apostrophe," and when talking about the wind you can't directly talk to it so using apostrophe in lines like "thy on whose stream, mid the steep sky's commotion." and "Oh, lift me as a wave, a leaf, a cloud." seemed to be appropriate. What I thought the message portrayed in the poem was that the wind represented a higher power. In the fourth part of the poem Shelly begins to talk to this wind as a higher power like in the stanza "If I were a dead leaf...thy power, and share." In this stanza he seems to give the wind a godly description that will guide him wherever it wants to. This power seemed to be able to impose its wil on the speaker.In the rest of the poem the wind is seen as a creator and a destroyer which many see as a quality of a higher power. It has the ability to influence many things just as higher powers can influence our lives and Shelly believes that this wind/ higher power will bring him wherever he is destined to be. Also when he said "Make me thy lyre." A lyre being a musical instrument meant that he would allow this "wind" to use him freely just how many religions allow their higher being of worship to use them and guide them to human salvation. The ode does portray this meaning the best because this topic seems to be very serious to Shelly and Odes portray serious ideas.
ReplyDeleteI FINALLY MADE IT THE OTHER SIDE!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteShelley's message in this particular poem is very sincere and unifying, which may be hard to decipher based on the gloomy characterization of the wind as a "destroyer" and fierce spirit. At heart, Shelley just wants to be heard as a poet. He wants his words to be scattered among mankind and for people to listen to what he has to say. The reader can tell Shelly's inward struggle by the conviction he uses when saying "hear, oh hear!" Despite talking to the wind, he is also frustratingly speaking to the public. On a subsequent note, Shelly also wants to be heard as a revolutionist. He wants the wind to be his “trumpet of a prophecy,” that prophecy being his ideals for a more liberated, unified society. It’s fitting for Shelly to write in the form of an ode because his poem is serious, long, emotional, and is utilizing an apostrophe — all of which are characteristics for that structure. One of the things that surprised me, though, was that Shelly kept the same meter and rhyme for his ode (with three tercets followed by a rhyming couplet), which is not necessary for an ode. It’s more fitting for this poem to be written as an ode compared to a limerick or villanelle, since limericks are silly and the latter is monotonous. And again, all Shelly really wants is to be taken seriously and listened to. The wind symbolizes a mystical being. The poem directly describes it as an “enchanter” and throughout all of the stanzas gives the wind a qualifying substance that makes it seem to be a living entity. Shelly sees the wind as a powerful force that has the strength and resources to be able to spread his message for him, since Shelly has grown old. He laments that he had to turn to the wind for help by saying that “I would ne’er have striven as thus with thee in prayer in my sore need” if he were younger. Even so, Shelly has a genuine relationship with the wind and believes he is like the wind at heart. He says “A heavy weight of hours has chained and bowed one too like thee: tameless, and swift, and proud” which accents the time he has spent on earth but more importantly says one thing — I am like you. Shelley incorporates certain metaphors such as nature is art (the wind and spring both hold aesthetic qualities), and art is power (since the wind is fierce) which also speaks to his desire for his poetry to have a powerful impact on the public. A theme or archetype found in the text is one of beginnings and endings. Especially since the setting is Autumn when nature recycles itself and all the leaves and plants start to wither and die to make way for new life, Shelly speaks to the wind now because he wants the old ideals of his society to die and make way for his new ideas.
ReplyDeleteAn ode, as said in the poetry packet, usually involves the use of apostrophe. Talking to the wind would be using this. The ode is serious and keeps a formal tone throughout as well. The author asks the wind to "drive my dead thoughts over the universe." I think this is saying that the author is aging and he wants the last bit of his work to be spread among all the people. He knows that his time will come soon. I believe this is shown when Shelley says "Thou dirge of the dying year, to which this closing night will be the dome of a vast sepulcher." Though there is the thought of death, their is also the thought of new and coming life. At the end of the ode, the author states "O Wind, if Winter comes, can Spring be far behind?" I think this means "if death comes, wont life come again soon?" Spring is the season of new life and winter is the season of quiet and dead plant life. This subject was best conveyed through an ode. Death is a serious subject and I doubt a man who is nearing death would write something funny about how he wants his work to be heard by the people. He is thinking about the new life that may read his work in the future. I believe this wasnt a depressing poem about death but one about looking forward to new life.
ReplyDeleteIm not sure if this is how we are supposed to respond to others' responses but here goes... This is to Paradox. I do agree with your argument. For the most part. What i dont understand is how you decided that Shelley wanted a more liberated, unified society. It wasnt fully explained in your response. Though you made a very valid point, I disagree that Shelley was speaking of change. I think he just wanted his works to last and be read through the ages. We both agreed in that he was aging, but I think he is nearing the end of his life. I liked that you brought an archetype into this. I did not think of it but I do have to agree with you. But I see the end of his life and the beginning of the next generation.
ReplyDeleteResponse to FML —
ReplyDeleteLet me first say that I acquiesce with your interpretation that Shelley is moribund, and just craving his works to be remembered. This also crossed my mind because it says, “Oh, lift me as a wave, a leaf, a cloud! I fall upon the thorns of life! I bleed!” It made me think that Shelley was done with being a mortal — that the end of his life was coming either naturally or by request. I also took this as a biblical allusion because the next line it mentioned Shelley being ‘chained’ by time and along with the ‘thorns of life,’ it gave me the image of Christ nailed to his cross with a crown of thorns atop his head. Jesus was dieing during this event, but, conversely, he was dieing for the good of his people. You requested knowing how I decided that Shelly wanted a more liberated, unified society. Reaching this conclusion involves a specific critical analysis of Shelley’s diction in particular. It would also involve seeing the poem through my perspective as a poet and revolutionist preaching his prophecy. In line 5 of the poem Shelley brought up “pestilence-stricken multitudes.” Instead of talking about leaves, the word multitudes symbolizes people (like a mass of people) and pestilence roughly means a dangerous and evil influence. In short, the line is saying the general public has been negatively influenced and, in turn, now exhibits bad qualities. Next, after Shelley talks about becoming a lyre, he mentions giving off an “autumnal tone, sweet though in sadness.” I took this to mean he wanted his words of change (I’m connecting that he wants change due to his repetitive reference of the changing of the season) to have an uplifting, “sweet” impact on society. And just as the truth hurts most of the time, Shelley notes that acknowledging the declination of society is a sad topic, but it honestly needed to be corrected. Lastly, Shelley requests the wind to drive his thoughts to “quicken a new birth” which I ascertained to mean a changing of the mentality of mankind. I see both of our interpretations tying in because all my talk of liberation and all your talk of Shelley dieing with a good work to be remembered by can then go back to the biblical allusion of Jesus Christ — how in his life he wanted humanity to receive salvation, and in his death he wanted his teachings to be remembered and carried out.
Thank you Paradox. I understand where you are coming from now.
ReplyDeleteShelley's choice to write the ode to the wind felt to me to show his diversity in his work. He diplays his feelings towards the 'wind' as if it could be a higher meaning within his imagination through his discontented choice of 'fierce' diction. As a "wild spirit" within lines 13-14 he displays the severity of the wind's effects, as he describes the wind as a "destroyer" and "preserver", he also puts forth the thought that this 'wind' is a powerful force for which he either gives high praise to or fears greatly. In his allusion to Greek Mythology's Maenad, he conveys a sense that he may be a worshipper of the wind or a follower of its effects and or substances. In the 4th and 5th part of this piece, his imagery to being a "dead leaf" and "thou mightest bear" portrays his discontent with the wind saying that if he were part of the winds nature, he could mean to want to be great or connected to a greater purpose, I didn't see this piece as mournful but to see him wanting to be a better writer through his creative connection with elements such as the wind and giving it such importance made me believe that he wanted his readers to see how big of a deal an element like this could represent. In closing, lines 61-68 lets him seem to be putting forth the effect that he wants to put amongst the world when he states "ashes and sparks, my words among mankind" saying that his work wants to put meaning to the world and his ideas within his pieces wants to inspire a creative set of mind. Finally, when he brings in the refrences to Winter and Spring, saying as time passes and comes again his ideas/words will still be part of the world.
ReplyDeletecomment to FML:
ReplyDeleteI agreed with your means of the wind representing a higher power, but I also saw that he wanted to be a higher power to the world as the wind was to him, not just him being a full on puppet of the wind. Although, I do agree that as an instrument to the wind he allows himself to be swayed in any way, but I didn't get where the connection to the rest of the world stood. Like I don't think I understood why he was looking forward to new life and what his work represented, but I did like your comment.:)
The poet's choice to write as an ode makes the poem more serious. A limerick on the West Wind would not have conveyed the depth of emotion that is seen in this poem. An ode also allows the poet to write much longer than most other poetic forms, and clearly he had a great deal to say about the west wind. Furthermore, the allusions to Greek mythology would appear out of place in a less serious form. The poet's message is that the wind is powerful/dangerous. The illusions to Greek mythology help convey this message. Heaven (Ouranus) was dangerous to his children; he imprisoned many of them. Ocean, the river that encircled that Earth, showes power because it somehow held everything on the Earth and prevented it from falling off. The capitalization of both of these words means that they are proper nouns and not the modern concepts of sea and sky. The wind symbolyzes anything outside the control of the poet. His relationship with this 'wind' is that he both idolizes and fears it.
ReplyDeleteResponse to waffle:
ReplyDeleteYour point about the wind being a higher power is what I meant by "anything outside the control of the poet." You, however, elaborated more about the concept.
His allusion to Heaven and Ocean could also play into your interpretation. Heaven, in Greek mythology, was one of the first gods. Ocean was one of the Titans. These two definitely would be considered higher powers by anyone familiar with Greek mythology. Furthermore, the mention of a Maenad implies that the wind has complete control, just as in Greek mythology Dionysus has complete control over drunks. Line 56 also contributes to the 'higher power' idea; a higher power is "tameless, swift, and proud."
What is the impact of Shelley's choice to write in the structure of an ode to the wind? The impact of Shelley writing in the form of an ode is it’s added to how Shelly is portraying the wind. In the definition of an ode it states that a speaker often use apostrophe, this poem has such a big impact because Shelly is using apostrophe to talk to the wind. Overall, what is his message and was it BEST conveyed through this structure instead of another? His message is that the wind should bring voices of change or voices of influence. The quote at all most every line is “hear, oh, hear!” I think repressing someone talking. This is best conveyed through this structure of an ode than another because in the poem he’s taking to the wind, sort of telling it to bring word to people, that’s a great example of an apostrophe. Consider what the wind symbolizes and what his relationship is with the wind? I think the wind symbolizes a man. The quote “yellow, and black, and pale, and hectic red.” All describe a man’s felling and or appearance. His relationship with this man is he can share emotions with him. It seems although this poem has some sort of death tied in, I just don’t know who has lost a love one, the wind or Shelly.
ReplyDeleteThis is to FML.....
ReplyDeleteI agree with your death and life Comparison to winter and spring, and the quote "drive my dead thoughts over the universe." Is stating that he want to be heard, But I think when he is saying that quote he is meaning “drive my thoughts of change over the world.” And the next line “like withered leaves to quicken a new birth.” I think this is saying as soon as change comes new life and new attitude will arise from the people’s spirits and they in a sense will be reborn.
FML...
ReplyDeleteYou said that the speaker was nearing death but I interpreted this poem in a completely different way. I thought it was about a guy who was being enlightened by this "higher spirit" and reforming their ways. I thought this was this persons way to make this higher powers works known to the world and his way to also change his life. But I liked your interpretation more than mine.(it makes a lot more sense) But when you said the tone was anticipation of a new life I thought it was more of an enlightening expirience for him as he reflects on this great power "Destroyer and Preserver; hear, O hear!" But I liked your analysis of the poem a lot and thank you for a some great insight that I didn't even notice.
The use of an Ode for this particular poem was an intelligent direction to take for Shelley’s feelings towards the wind convey a serious tone which is the direct definition of the characterization of an ode “a serious topic and formal tone.” It is revealed in the opening stanza that Shelley acknowledges the wind as some sort of powerful unseen presence that is capable of moving objects with its presence such as the example of the leaves. Shelley makes a definite simile between the wind and a higher power such as a God if looking at this through a religious perspective. Like worshippers do to their God, Shelley was willing to give himself unto the Wind (a mighty higher power with great influence) just as Jesus Christ gave his life for the world. Shelley in the fourth stanza states “If I were a dead leaf thou mightest bear;” which is a connection to the overall message of Shelley’s exclamation to the wind pleading for its influence to come and impact Shelley’s life. Another connection I perceived through my analysis is a lot of religions believe in the aspect of repentance or the cleansing from sin, which is what I thought when I read in the fifth stanza “drive my dead thoughts over the universe like withered leaves to quicken a new birth!” Just as Claudius had attempted to pray to God in hamlet in his time of “sore need” like in stanza four, Shelley wanted the wind to lift him as a cloud, taking him away from his mistakes or maybe even a guilty conscience. Shelley’s objective was to catch the attention of the wind to come and grant him a new birth from his misery, whatever that may entail.
ReplyDeleteresponse to FML:
ReplyDeleteI read this poem through a religious lense as you might be able to see if you read my comment but reading through your analysis of the poem I was able to look at the poem at a different angle, as if Shelley was aging. In my head I was able to create a deeper analysis tying both of our perspectives together. With death comes the desire to be cleansed so one can leave this earth with a clean conscience, so Shelley’s desire as you stated it “O Wind, if winter comes, can spring be far behind?” implying that spring would bring a new life would be like unto the renewing of life or cleansing of sins so the Shelley could start anew such as Spring revives the life beaten so harshly by the treacherous winter storms. And sadly this is where the connection halts for I viewed this poem as the passing of life rather than the renewal of life.
An ode is characterized with the topic of freedom, and felt that the wind represented freedom, the wind was described as a "wild spirit", wild meaning untamed, and spirit being uncachable, so the ode could portray that easily. The message is that he wants to be free like the wind, the wind moving the leaves opened his eyes and he realized that he was not truly free, it wasnt best put into this structure, I would like it better if it didnt use the roman numerals, they make each stanza seem more important than they really are.
ReplyDeleteresponse to flipflops:
ReplyDeleteI did not see the ode as religious but i can see where you are coming from, but i felt it was about freedom, they used a formal way to say that they are not free, wind does what it wants and goes where it wants to go, and the author is saying take me with you, showing his desire to be free
It is interesting to me that Shelley chose to put these thoughts and feelings into the form of an ode. What I gather from the poem is that the speaker desperately wants freedom. Wind is free and mighty and the speaker is envious of that. At the end of the first three parts, he pleads with the wind to "hear, oh, hear!" implying that the wind is something bigger than him, a "destroyer and preserver," a "Wild Spirit." He wants and needs the wind to hear him and to "make me thy lyre" asking to be like the wind. The reason I find it so interesting that Shelley chose ode to be his form, is because the ode is so structured. If he's longing for freedom, why is his poem in such a restricting format? Wouldn't he want to write freely about freedom? Maybe that reflects the fear that comes with having the freedom we so often long for. Once you have that freedom, when all restrictions are gone, there's a fear that inevitably sets in.
ReplyDeleteHashbrowns: I couldn't agree more.
ReplyDeleteFlipflops: I can totally understand that idea that the wind could be considered as God. God is free and mighty and many wish to be as God. But I also feel that the wind holds a dark sinister quality that is not of God.
FML: I hadn't thought about the life and death comparison. But now that you mention it, spring is often equated with new life and winter with death. Maybe this, then, could be a way that the wind is like a god? Bringing life and taking it away?
Shelley choosing to write the poem as an ode made it a more meaningful and real poem because we know that an ode is about a serious topic, thus showing his seriousness about the topic. Throughout the story the "west wind", which shows the presence of autumn, is one that is very influential and has the ability to take (destroyer) and give (preserver). The wind is considered one that gives for its ability to give life to others; spreading the seeds of the trees to the soil and later blossoming. But also one who takes, autumn is a time when all the leaves start wither and die, then completely disappear during winter "like a corpse within its grave". This brings out Shelley's deeper meaning son how the wind represents chances and changes in a person’s life. Sometimes those changes and be terrible and set your life back. But other times they are able to show us new opportunities or reveal things about us that we may have to were gone, like Baiae's bay. But the most important thing is that no madder how your life is going there is always "spring", meaning that there is always a new opportunities and another chance to change. No matter how bad life might be and your hope may be gone, spring is never far behind winter. Writing the poem as an ode seemed very appropriate and the best choice compared to others. Some other poems had limits on the amount of lines or had a different rhyme scheme and the way the poem the poem was constructed perfectly fine.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteResponse to HiroLover:
ReplyDeleteI read the poem a few times with your point of view as the wind being a person, but i just couldn't see it. one of my biggest issues is what the leaves represented, the wind was something that influenced them is some kind of way, I couldn't tell if they were feelings or hope or something. Another thing was the clouds; what were they? I know you didn't specify what they were, im just a little curious.
With response to paradox
ReplyDeleteThats interesting i never would have though to think about the seasons, its an interesting way to go. I see what you mean about dying in the winter and being reborn in the summer and how that could be associated with his work.
Okay. Beware possible historical inaccuracies.
ReplyDeleteI have taken it upon myself to immerse myself in…the history of China. And my response is extremely shaped by the short documentary clip I have watched yesterday…most likely.
Shelly’s choice to write “Ode to the West Wind,” sets the stage for a dramatic and grave address of the speaker’s true feelings, desires to a subject who is non-existent or not caring to listen, using apostrophe. Conventionally such odes praise the subject; nonetheless that shouldn’t lead to the conclusion that it has to. The speaker seeks to express his feelings to the ‘wind.’ “Destroyer and preserver; hear, oh hear!” Had the plea of the speaker, and the anguish thereof, been listened to by the ‘wind,’ the ode’s impact would have been lessened; it is the disparity in the rank and power of the speaker and the ‘wind’ that the ode most effectively depicts: no matter how much the speaker had despised the superiority of the ‘wind’ and its rampant violation of the speaker, all he could do is repeated cry out: oh hear!
The speaker’s message is his last defiant cry against the wind, knowing that submission and surrender is inevitable: The speaker acknowledges it: “If I were… A Wave to pant beneath thy power, and share the impulse of thy strength.” But immediately the speaker yells out, “Oh, uncontrollable,” suggesting his disgust in his submission to the ‘wind.’ If this poem had been a sonnet, would it have depicted the sorrow of the speaker? Had the poem been an elegy, where the speaker paid tribute to his loss of power, it wouldn’t have worked because this is a public declaration of the speaker’s sorrow that the author is trying to convey.
The wind, as it is spoken of in the title, is “the West,” possibly meaning the Western Civilizations and the speaker is the Chinese nation (in mid to late 1800’s.) When I saw the words, “Yellow, and Black and pale, and hectic red,” I immediately thought of the Chinese flag.
The speaker, who I say is CHINA!!!!, once used to be a powerful nation, in his “boyhood” and at its height during the Tang dynasty when he was walking on Heaven, his nation standing strong under the mandate of heaven I presume. Back then it didn’t even see worth it to try to “outstrip [wind’s] skyey speed. But now the powers which lay in “the blue Mediterranean,” and who wields the “Atlantic’s level Powers” (I believe the speaker is talking about the European nations surrounding the Mediterranean Ocean as well as UK.) The Chinese nation expresses its grief as the British and French troops entered the Forbidden City in Peking on the 18th of October 1860 and burned down the cities and castles, filling the air with that “of vapors… Black rain, and fire and hail.”
The speaker’s submission in the final stanza depicts China’s cession of Hong Kong to UK and signing of the Sino-Russian Treaty of Peking of 1860, right after the Second Opium War. The nation had no choice but to try to minimize the future damages.
I believe that Shelley’s choice to write to the ‘wind’ shows how he is as a writer. It shows not only the type of relationship he had with the ‘wind’ but also how he felt about it and why. I believe his message would have to do with religion, he tells the wind to "drive my dead thoughts over the universe" as though he knows that soon he will be dead, before he has a chance to spread his work. But when he goes on and begins to talk about "if death comes” as though it is a question, as though he is not sure that death truly will come to him, but than he continues with “wont life come again soon?" making me feel that if death is really to come that life will come again as well, such as in some religions it is believed that your soul is reincarnated, which could explain why he believes death might not come for him at all. The structure, an ode is best for this type of work as it involves the use of apostrophe. As he speaks to the wind as though it could hear him this is an example of apostrophe. It also adds an element that you would not normally think of, we think poetry and letters, an ode begins about a new and unique feeling. The ‘wind’ could be so much, it could be someone he loved, or an apprentice, it could be the people of the word, or someone who has nothing to show for his life and is truly speaking to something as innate as a ‘wind’ and hopping that one day is does spread who he is through out the world.
ReplyDeleteWith response to Flipflops:
ReplyDeleteI have to agree i can see how it could relate to god, he is asking god to spread his work over the world and through out time. That makes a good point and really ads a different meaning behind the piece when i think about it that way.
To HiroLover
ReplyDeleteAt first when I red the second stanza, I thought the author was paying tribute to the death which was depicted through the faltering leaves of autumn. When I read your response that wind symbolizes a man and that the colors yellow and black and pale and red all portrays a man's appearance, I was surprised. It inspired me to think of the colors as the change in his face's complexion as the speaker stood abashed and ashamed infront of the 'wind's' superiority. After all, I belieave such colors also represent the colors of humors which also depict our..personalities